If you’re still on the fence about Korean luxury sedans...

"DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!" (daft-ryosuke)
06/26/2019 at 14:20 • Filed to: None

The Genesis G90 might just sway you.

he quality and comfort is flawless in this thing. The ride is seriously smooth and literally zero noise enters the cabin. This is just as good a luxury car as any Mercedes or Lexus offering.

Also the Lexicon audio system is one of the clearest I’ve ever heard in a luxury car. Amongst the best from B&O and Mark Levinson.

DISCUSSION (51)

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:22

Which engine does this car have?

Chariotoflove > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:25

Agreed t hat Lexicon system is seriously good. Strong base without overpowering the middle and top. Also the lack of noise in the cabin means I can listen to symphonic music and not have to change the volume for quiet passages. I find myself listening to the classical station more than I have in years.

Sovande > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:25

This doesn’t change my mind in the slightest.

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Sovande
06/26/2019 at 14:29

I never said my words would sway you, I said the car would. Try driving it next time.

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/26/2019 at 14:29

3.3T. Surprisingly peppy for a car of this size.

Ash78, voting early and often > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:32

I was out there a couple days ago kicking tires and saw the blue Lexus RC-F on the lot. I seriously don’t think I’ve ever seen one of those in the wild before...maybe once or twice at most. Really changed my perspective on Lexus just to sit in it. I didn’t even realize they were in that market.

I also didn’t realize Jag was putting Diesels in the F-Pace. Interesting...some stuff I just ignore in the news until I see it firsthand.

Sovande > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:33

No thanks. I am not going to buy a pseudo luxo barge from Korea.

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:33

I want one badly, I can’t wait until they’re worth $10k in 10 years

Textured Soy Protein > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/26/2019 at 14:35

Base model has the 3.3 twin turbo V6 from the Kia Stinger etc with 365 hp . Step up is the 5.0 NA V8 with 420 hp.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:36

I am on the fence, waiting for them to depreciate so that I can jump on it at the right moment.

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Ash78, voting early and often
06/26/2019 at 14:41

I drove that RCF on Sunday! We’ve actually been getting a lot of oddball stuff lately. It’s been amusing.

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
06/26/2019 at 14:43

I can respect that. Sometimes I think about grabbing a first gen Genesis 5.0 R-Spec. They’re so cheap.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:45

The Equus is also nice. I explored this G90 at the NY Auto show this year. Was blown away. The interior is proper luxury, and the rear seat is a better place to be than the front.

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > Sovande
06/26/2019 at 14:49

That is probably the most naive and uneducated thing I’ve read all day. Take your ignorance elsewhere, if you’ve been paying any sort of attention to anything car-related lately you’ll have noticed that Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis are making very good cars that outshine their competitors in many ways at a great value. The idea that these cars are terrible simply because they’re Korean needs to be given up already and is just tired at this point.

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:51

The whole “kOrEaN cArS aRe bAd” thing needs to die already, Hyundai/Kia/Genesis have been putting out some good, good stuff lately. On the bright side, that means depreciation will make them even better used buys for us all here.

Ash78, voting early and often > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:51

The lot is pretty full and it looks like the backlog of stuff waiting to go through recon is pretty stout, too.

I just made things worse by requesting a transfer on a Golf Alltrack from Chattanooga :)

fintail > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:54

Nice enough car, but in real world situations I don’t know if the W222 has anything to fear (and that I mean has nothing to fear).

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > fintail
06/26/2019 at 14:57

The G90 has one thing going for it over the 222, and that’s the fact that it didn’t have a piece of peeling plastic that cut my elbow when I placed it on the armrest like the 2017 S550 I drove.

But yeah, the S-Class is still the top of the heap, followed by the LS.

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Ash78, voting early and often
06/26/2019 at 14:57

I’ll be sure to be the one to pass it through the system then!

jimz > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 14:58

Also the Lexicon audio system is one of the clearest I’ve ever heard in a luxury car. Amongst the best from B&O and Mark Levinson.

the funny thing is all three are done by Harman.

fintail > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 15:01

Used vs new comparison? Who knows what can happen in 2 years.

This G90 is no doubt a fine car and good value, especially once depreciation sets in, but most buyers of this segment aren’t seeking raw value. For better or worse, aesthetics mean something, and badges mean even more.

I think Genesis should move to a column shifter for their barge, too. That little shift knob looks off, somehow.

7:07 > Chariotoflove
06/26/2019 at 15:02

This is good to hear. I have yet to hear a car sound system that can do justice to organ music, mostly because of high road/tire/wind noise and not being able to reproduce 16Hz pedal tones :-)

Chariotoflove > 7:07
06/26/2019 at 15:13

Organ music in those ranges is definitely a challenge. Maybe bring a test track with you on test drives to really put it through its paces. :)

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > fintail
06/26/2019 at 15:17

I actually like this shifter, feedback is a lot better than some others like it.

Sovande > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 15:18

No you didn't. You mentioned it rides smoothly and has a nice stereo. The same can be said for a really long list of cars that I have am not interested in.

7:07 > Chariotoflove
06/26/2019 at 15:35

I usually do. You should see the reactions from the sales reps... It’s pretty amusing.

With the low recording levels, the biggest problem with car audio systems is running out of gain. You have to really crank the volume up to hear the soft passages, then hold on to your butts when the double forte sections come in, and with Reger compositions, that’s as much as possible. Most car audio amplifiers do well with music with limited dynamic range and high recording levels like almost all “normal” music from the last 60 years. Anyway, I’m rambling now; the point is, it’s a problem few people have.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 15:36

Between our own and all the ones I’ve driven at work, I concur. Genesis is making some phenomenal cars right now. The G70 3.3T is a riot.

Chariotoflove > 7:07
06/26/2019 at 15:43

It’s true.

fintail > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 16:35

I like column shifters with the more open console feel in lux or similar cars.

sony1492 > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 16:44

In a couple years that will be in the top 5 for my next financial mistake

qbeezy > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 16:49

I have been wanting to upgrade so bad from the coupe to the sedan, but I fit so much better in coupes. I am holding out for the eventual Genesis badged coupe. I am an impatient American, so I’ll probably end up in a G70.

Under_Score > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 17:38

Is this gonna be for sale at CarMax?

gin-san - shitpost specialist > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
06/26/2019 at 19:10

Similarly, the Kia K900 is quite nice. I think they share a platform but I thought it was quite a nice car to ride in as a passenger.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > fintail
06/26/2019 at 19:28

I don’t think the S-Class will ever have to worry about the Korean premium sedans.

To me, people who want to buy an S-Class or LS (or something weird like a 7-Series or the A8/S8) are going to do so. I’ll be surprised if I hear Hyundai/Genesis or Kia ever come up in a comparison with any of these vehicles from prospective buyers.

If anything, I think the Korean premium sedans could potentially take away some sales from the cars a step down.

In Canada, the G90 only has one trim and is 87k rubles, whereas the S-Class base price is 108k rubles. The E-Class with similar power is around 84k before options, and there are over 10k of option packages you can add. I don’t doubt the E53 AMG will be better in terms of performance but you can go a step up in size with the G90 and probably keep most of the features and all the performance that matters. I think those that focus on performance specs in this category have lost the plot unless it’s looking at stuff like NVH numbers.

The German brands plus Lexus have built up a reputation over time, and Hyundai/Kia are really still in the early stages. They basically need to keep making S-Class clones and keep increasing quality while controlling costs and just do what the LS did when it first arrived here.

It’s difficult to get over the fact that brand image plays such a huge factor. Even though I know the Korean premium sedans are good, in my mind I’d still rather have a BMW or Mercedes because I wouldn’t have to fucking explain it to people.

fintail > gin-san - shitpost specialist
06/26/2019 at 22:25

Definitely no real cross shopping going on between the existing luxobarge kings and the newcomer. As you say, those who want those cars made up their mind a long time ago, and also probably have brand loyalty.

I think the biggest competition might be CPO cars from traditional premium brands. I could buy a new loaded G90 or a 3 year old low miles CPO S550 for the same money. I’d choose the latter. MB CPO is pretty solid, the tech will be the same, the car will likely be well-cared for. As you say, performance isn’t a big issue in this segment. I think most AMG buyers again just want the badge and maybe the noise.

Image and badge are also worth a lot, and also materials. I haven’t examined a G90, but I recall looking over a K900, and the manmade interior materials left something to be desired. Some may argue that it cost 65K instead of 110K, but those who want the 110K car probably won’t settle. Sales numbers tell the tale.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > fintail
06/26/2019 at 23:05

Yeah, CPO changes the picture entirely.

If I can get an S-Class without the worry about expensive shit going wrong , the Korean cars really do lose their edge.

I have no idea how all the finances work out in the end in terms of depreciation vs. maintenance costs but I figure at this level of car it’s not large enough to matter.

Brand new and in the same segment, it’s great that the G90 is 20k cheaper. Like Lexus did back in the day, t hey need to make the Genesis feel as nice as the Mercedes, which means that it needs to be better in every way to have any chance at overcoming the badge disparity. Even then, it still needs to be cheaper. GL HF.

fintail > gin-san - shitpost specialist
06/26/2019 at 23:19

The certified used cars make the most sense as a competitor, to me anyway. I can’t imagine any cross-shopping new, and even shopping say an E or 5er seems remote, as the latter aren’t as bargey and often have good leases, at least in Murka .

As you say, these upstarts will need to be both as nice or even better, for less. It’s kind of the Cadillac dilemma - they finally decided to take on the Germans a little, by offering a car that was maybe 90% equivalent. Unfortunately, it cost maybe 85% as much - not enough of a delta for the market to care. Be like Lexus and offer a legit almost reverse-engineered S for E money, then slowly raise the price once people become hooked. It worked, at least in the NA market.

In another decade, Genesis might be able to more realistically address the “as nice” ideal. Not there yet, in my opinion.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/26/2019 at 23:40

My opinion is that the Koreans make decent cars generally.

Give Me Tacos or Give Me Death > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/27/2019 at 12:38

Feedback from an automatic shift lever?

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Give Me Tacos or Give Me Death
06/27/2019 at 13:18

Have you ever driven a Chrysler product with that abomination of a T-shift handle? At least this gives you assuring clicks to let you know you actually shifted into gear.

Give Me Tacos or Give Me Death > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/27/2019 at 13:30

Sure haven’t! My cars are all three pedals. My wife has had a 2006 civic and now a 2017 Prius. That’s pretty much my experience with automatics outside of rented box trucks .

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Give Me Tacos or Give Me Death
06/27/2019 at 14:02

I’m fine with automatics but I’m tired of brands trying to be futuristic with gear selectors that rubber band to a neutral position after changing gear.

Give Me Tacos or Give Me Death > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/27/2019 at 14:13

Yeah, don’t solve problems that don’t exist.

And don’t create problems that don’t need to be solved.

Party-vi > HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute
06/28/2019 at 07:30

>.>

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > Party-vi
06/28/2019 at 08:49

Sorry about that. Twas a long day.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/28/2019 at 13:24

I have yet to see a single engineer or designer perk up about why they went that design direction in the first place. Is it a cost thing, is it some ergonomic study, were they ordered to make things harder for their customers so service departments can charge more, I just want to know.

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Ash78, voting early and often
06/28/2019 at 14:10

Your Alltrack is here, I think it needs some recon done first though

Scratch that, I think it’ll be good to go this afternoon

Ash78, voting early and often > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/28/2019 at 14:53

“Scratch that” might not be the best choice of words :)

Thanks for the heads up! I still have to sell the wife on the idea, since she’ll be driving it half the time, as well. She still thinks anything with the Golf name is “small and junky” thanks to the 90s. Hopefully the SEL will help sway her...

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Ash78, voting early and often
06/28/2019 at 15:18

Trust me, the SEL is great. It’s like if someone actually put forth time and effort into making the interior nice in my Outback. Either way, it’s on the lot when you’re ready to come look at it. If you want to mix it in with a Oppo Carmax Birmingham meetup I’m here until 5 today and tomorrow

Ash78, voting early and often > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!
06/28/2019 at 16:12

Sounds great — I wasn’t expecting it so fast! I’ll be out of town this weekend, so it might have to wait until Monday.

I hear you on the interior — I always joke that interiors are the most important part because that’s where I have to actually s pend my time.

Right now it’s a toss-up between the 2-year-old Carmax SEL with 50k miles or (for just $3k more) the Royal VW S models. More basic, but brand new. They’ve had two on the lot for several months and are slashing prices, so it’s a tough call...

I’d love to say hello one day if you’re around, who can I ask for?

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Ash78, voting early and often
06/28/2019 at 16:18

I think I’d personally go for the pre owned model with the higher amount of features. It’s a better bargain, but that’s just my way of buying cars. That and I don’t like Royal.

I won’t be there on Monday but I will on Tuesday, you can ask for Dakota in inventory or if you end up buying it they’ll announce it on the radio and I’ll just lurk around it until you take delivery.